tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15149698.post114388689409582570..comments2023-05-03T10:44:05.842+01:00Comments on bits: TiltMacDuffhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02568583617919589169noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15149698.post-1143980100339561052006-04-02T13:15:00.000+01:002006-04-02T13:15:00.000+01:00Meaning what, bill, that you believe in infinity, ...Meaning what, bill, that you believe in infinity, for which a logical proof has never been given?... <BR/><BR/>What religion is that, anyway?islandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16774086177497447408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15149698.post-1143976194293454872006-04-02T12:09:00.000+01:002006-04-02T12:09:00.000+01:00I am with the antifanatics and cannot see that the...I am with the antifanatics and cannot see that there is any significance in it. It happened because it could. We must therefore live in/on the best of all possible worlds.sfwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03592447707671698816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15149698.post-1143946899805835282006-04-02T04:01:00.000+01:002006-04-02T04:01:00.000+01:00cognito ergo sum... or something like that.cognito ergo sum... or something like that.Humour and last laughhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07640878753061550667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15149698.post-1143932260744419502006-04-01T23:57:00.000+01:002006-04-01T23:57:00.000+01:00Yes, I should have said that you don't have an inf...Yes, I should have said that you don't have an infinite number of possibilities to lose the *significance* of the evidence in, if there is only one, finite universe. Leonard Susskind said the same thing in his interview with Amanda Geftler for the "New Scientist" magazine interview, except that he WRONLGY stated that IDists would have a case for intelligent design if the "landcape" of universes does not exist. <BR/><BR/>You gave an example of one of the multitude of anthropic coincidences in your original posting, and the significance of this "goldilocks" scenario is that ALL of the anthropic coincidences are similarly *ecobalanced* between diametrically opposing runaway tendencies, which has a huge impact on the structure and life feasibility of the universe.<BR/><BR/>Now, the real question is where you go from here with this information.<BR/><BR/>Do you act like a real scientist and look for a good physical reason why humans might be specially required by the thermodynamic process of the universe... ? <BR/><BR/>... or do you act like a religious fanatic.. ?<BR/><BR/>... or do you act like an "antifanatic" and deny the significance even exists?<BR/><BR/>This kind of preconceived prejudice is what your up against... and more... when you start studying the anthropic principle.islandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16774086177497447408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15149698.post-1143923842394700272006-04-01T21:37:00.000+01:002006-04-01T21:37:00.000+01:00There are implications for specialness that are in...<I>There are implications for specialness that are inherent to the "anthropic coincidences" if you don't have an infinite number of possibilities to lose this evidence in.</I><BR/>Yes I see what you say -that the probability of specialness in a finite universe is much higher because in a sense it is a real number you put on the probability wereas in an infinite universe of infinite age its a certainty at some time or place.<BR/>I never thought of that.MacDuffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02568583617919589169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15149698.post-1143918104477945022006-04-01T20:01:00.000+01:002006-04-01T20:01:00.000+01:00I dont see how in a finite one we are 'specially s...<I>I dont see how in a finite one we are 'specially selected' though although I would like this to be the case...</I><BR/><BR/>There are implications for specialness that are inherent to the "anthropic coincidences" if you don't have an infinite number of possibilities to lose this evidence in.<BR/><BR/>I think that the fact that specialness is implied in the observed universe scenario says a lot about the lameness of the rest of them. You don't look for an infinite number of smoking guns to prove that it wasn't a killers fault that he murdered somebody, since it had to happen in some universe. How lame is that?<BR/><BR/>Science took a hard left at infinity and uncertainty, and it never looked back to Einstein's reality. He never bought into that whole infinite universe crap either, but he had a theory whose most natural extension gave him good reason for his belief. He held onto that until the day that he died, in spite of the rest of them.<BR/><BR/>I think that says a lot too, but most scientists are unfazed by this sort of reasoning.<BR/><BR/>I'm the author of AP.ORG, so you're in lazy-luck... ;)islandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16774086177497447408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15149698.post-1143916122383202012006-04-01T19:28:00.000+01:002006-04-01T19:28:00.000+01:00ThanksI think I see what you are saying. In an inf...Thanks<BR/>I think I see what you are saying. In an infinite universe given sufficent time all possible things will occur including life and presumably including Island writing your comment, again and again.<BR/>I dont see how in a finite one we are 'specially selected' though although I would like this to be the case. Ill definitely go and have a look at both websites properly but as I very rarely do what I say I am going to do when I say I am going to do it then it might take a couple of weeks.MacDuffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02568583617919589169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15149698.post-1143911188064970432006-04-01T18:06:00.000+01:002006-04-01T18:06:00.000+01:00But then there is something called the anthropic p...<I>But then there is something called the anthropic principle which rather screws up this feeling of being specially selected.<BR/>I think this says that the only reason that there is this extraordinary set of circumstances is that there is somebody here to observe them. There might be a billion other ‘suitable’ planets where no observers have evolved.</I><BR/><BR/>If there is one finite unvierse, then we are "specially selected".<BR/><BR/>If there are an infinite number of universes, or one infinite universe with an infinite number of conditions, then we are "eventually inevitable", or whatever.<BR/><BR/>Try www.anthropic-principle.ORG instead.islandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16774086177497447408noreply@blogger.com